The Indonesia-China High-Speed ​​Rail (KCIC) project, the pride of Indonesia's 7th President Joko Widodo, has consistently captured public attention. Numerous issues have surfaced surrounding this megaproject—from allegations of corruption, budget overruns, to the inability to repay the high debt and interest burden. According to Tory Damantoro, ST, MSc, MPPM, Chairman of the Indonesian Transportation Society (MTI), the KCIC, nicknamed "Whoosh," is a lighthouse project.

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Before the KCIC project was realized, opposition had already emerged from various parties. The most prominent was the rejection from Ignasius Jonan, Minister of Transportation in Jokowi's Working Cabinet. According to Jonan, who is also the former President Director of KAI, the project was not commercially viable, was not urgently needed because there were many other transportation options, and because of its high costs, it had the potential to become a burden on the state's debt.

Another objection came from public policy observer Agus Pambagio. Similar to Jonan, he argued that the project was too expensive and would become a debt burden. If not managed carefully, it risked default. Therefore, he disagreed with the KCIC project. However, because Jokowi was adamant, Agus could not stop him. Agus conveyed this when invited by Jokowi to the Palace.

MTI, according to Tory Damantoro, was among those who disagreed with KCIC. "When the high-speed train program was about to begin, MTI argued that the high-speed train was a lighthouse development project. Usually, lighthouse projects are not financially viable," he said.

Because the government at that time insisted on realizing this mega-project, MTI could only offer advice. "We warned them that if this lighthouse project were to proceed, they must be prepared for the risks involved. This was especially true when the project was decided to be built using a B2B (business-to-business) scheme, not using the state budget," Tory continued.

As is known, the initial plan was for the high-speed rail project to be built by Japan at a cost of IDR 91 trillion (G2G - Government-to-Government) scheme. However, midway through, Jokowi turned to China with a planned cost of IDR 86 trillion (B2B). Over time, the cost ballooned to over IDR 113 trillion.

Despite various obstacles, the Jakarta-Bandung KCIC project was finally completed. Is the Whoosh project worth continuing to Surabaya as originally planned? "This needs to be thoroughly reviewed. The two years of KCIC's operation can be an important lesson. Any problems that arose in the first phase must not be repeated if the project is to continue to Surabaya," Tory emphasized to Edy Suherli, Bambang Eros, and Irfan Meidianto of VOI, who met him in Karet, Central Jakarta, on October 29, 2025.

How do you view the current state of railways in Indonesia—has it progressed or stagnated compared to the early days of independence?

The differences between railways during the Dutch colonial era and today are vast. The role of railways in the past and present is also very different.

During the Dutch era, trains were primarily used to distribute plantation, agricultural, and other commodities from producing areas to major cities on Java, as well as in Sumatra, which had a railway network. At that time, trains were the most efficient mode of transportation.

In the current era, the role of railways has expanded. In addition to transporting goods, they also serve as a means of transporting passengers. The quality of train services is now more orderly and better. Indeed, the role of railways in logistics transportation needs to be strengthened, as their contribution is still small—except for coal transportation in Babaranjang in South Sumatra.

Many railway lines from the Dutch era are no longer functional. What do you think?

Around 7,000 km of railway lines were built by the Dutch throughout Indonesia at a time when trucking was not yet widespread. At that time, the only means of transporting plantation and agricultural products was trains; their only competition was carts.

When trucks arrived and made logistics transportation cheaper and more flexible, trains failed to remain relevant in the supply chain of economic activity in Indonesia. Trucks are more economical than rail transport — which is why trucks now control around 90% of freight transport in Indonesia.

Now, let's move on to high-speed trains. What is the internationally agreed definition of high-speed trains?

Internationally, trains with speeds exceeding 250 km/h are considered high-speed trains. Whoosh, with its latest train technology, can reach speeds of up to 350 km/h, making it a high-speed train. Whoosh is even the most advanced high-speed train in Southeast Asia.

For the 142 km Jakarta-Bandung route, is it feasible to build a high-speed train, considering the diverse modes of transportation between the two cities?

The feasibility of a mode of transportation can be assessed from various perspectives — technical, financial, community needs, social, and others. When Japan first built the Shinkansen bullet train from Tokyo to Osaka, the distance wasn't long, just 315.4 km in 1964. Today, the network has expanded thousands of kilometers across various routes.

The Jakarta-Bandung bullet train was originally planned to extend to Surabaya. Why Bandung? Because Bandung is Indonesia's third-largest city, with a high population, purchasing power, and economic activity. With bullet trains, it is hoped that new economic opportunities will emerge. For the first phase of Jakarta-Bandung, I think this is the best choice.

Many parties, including MTI, believe that Indonesia isn't ready for bullet trains. What are MTI's reasons for this?

When the bullet train program was about to begin, MTI argued that bullet trains were a beacon-like development project. Typically, beacon projects are not financially viable.

Examples include the Semanggi Bridge, Gelora Bung Karno Stadium, the Palapa Satellite, and the IPTN aircraft development project initiated by B.J. Habibie. According to Habibie, Indonesia can afford to buy airplanes, but by building them itself, the impact would be far greater. Successfully building an airplane would make it easier to master other, less complex transportation technologies. The same is true for the high-speed train project.

There's also the Trans-Java train program with a speed of 150 km/h, while current trains only travel at an average of 80–90 km/h. Without speed increases, railway development will stagnate. If left unchecked, it could end up like the colonial-era trains—abandoned due to competition from trucks. This is one of the reasons why a high-speed train is necessary, among other considerations.

So, what did MTI warn about this high-speed rail lighthouse project?

We've already warned that if this lighthouse project goes ahead, they must be prepared for the various risks involved. This is especially true when the project was decided to be built under a business-to-business (B2B) scheme, not using state funds.

So, when the Minister of Finance refused to pay off KCIC's debt, that was appropriate. So, resolve the B2B issue first. Moreover, KCIC's operations are reportedly covered by ticket sales. This means the only question is how to recoup the investment. Regarding the objections to payment, restructuring efforts have been made. We'll wait to see whether the Chinese side approves.

When KCIC was about to be realized, Minister of Transportation Ignasius Jonan disagreed and was eventually replaced. How do you view this?

Of course, Mr. Jonan had his reasons for disagreeing with the KCIC project. He was then transferred to the position of Minister of Energy and Mineral Resources at the time because President Jokowi insisted on realizing the KCIC project. This means that this project was already government policy at the time, and of course, risk mitigation was necessary because it was a major project.

The choice of a B2B financing scheme is an effort to mitigate risk. The government remains involved in the project through State Investment (PNM), but the value is smaller than the taxes received from the project. A lighthouse project like this cannot be viewed solely from a financial feasibility perspective.

Looking at Japan and China, which have successfully operated high-speed trains, while countries like the United States and the United Kingdom have not yet succeeded, what is your view?

Compared to the United States and the United Kingdom, we should be proud. The collaboration between Indonesian state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and China has succeeded in realizing the construction of a high-speed train. It's worth remembering that this project was built amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, with various restrictions and delays, but it was ultimately completed.

With Whoosh, our train service has been pushed to a higher standard. Previously, trains focused on service, but now, with high-speed trains, the level is comparable to airplanes—both in terms of speed and service.

If we look at the stops in Bandung, namely Tegalluar and Padalarang, with commuter train connection options, travel times have become longer. How do you view this?

Ideally, a direct route from Manggarai Station to Hall Station in Bandung would be ideal. However, building a line from Manggarai Station to Halim Station, and from Padalarang Station to Hall Station in Bandung, is no easy feat.

Just look at the MRT project from Lebak Bulus to Dukuh Atas—the contract was signed in 2014 and only completed in 2019. So, the current option is the most realistic. Regarding congestion after the final station, this requires intermodal integration. This is a challenge for our nation, especially in affected areas like Greater Bandung.

Is Whoosh really superior compared to private vehicles, regular trains, or the Jakarta-Bandung commuter line?

Each mode of transportation has its own characteristics, as its market segments differ. Therefore, an integrated transportation system is needed at the national level.

MTI has long proposed a Transportation Integration Bill in the Indonesian House of Representatives. Hopefully, it will be discussed and passed soon. With approximately 140 million people residing on the island of Java, if all modes of transportation are accelerated and well-integrated, each mode will have its own market. An integrated system will ensure that one mode doesn't exclude another.

There's a view that public transportation, including high-speed rail, is difficult to profit from without subsidies. Is this true? Are there other countries where public transportation isn't subsidized but still profitable?

Yes. It's not the public transportation itself that profits, but the operators. For example, the MTR in Hong Kong profits because they generate revenue other than tickets—such as from property and advertising space. Japan Rail also makes a profit, although not as much.

In principle, public transportation should be used by everyone. In Berlin, people pay 1 Euro (around IDR 15,000) for a bus ride, and no one protests. Meanwhile, here, even a small increase in TransJakarta fares causes an uproar, even though it hasn't increased from IDR 3,500 for 20 years.

Public transport ticket prices depend entirely on government policy, whether to raise or lower them — the important thing is that they remain affordable for as many people as possible.

Is it appropriate to equate subsidies for high-speed rail with those for the MRT, LRT, or commuter trains, which millions of people use every day?

Comparing one mode of transportation with another must be comparable. Whether or not it's appropriate depends on the initial intent. If the KCIC project is business-to-business (B2B), then fares should be handled using market mechanisms.

Currently, Whoosh passenger numbers haven't met initial expectations. What should the management do?

This means there are still unused Whoosh seats. This presents an opportunity to increase passenger numbers. Management can innovate in marketing, provide new services, and so on. Equally important, there must be a learning curve to cover operational costs. Learn from Whoosh's two years of operation to increase efficiency in the future. The KCIC Jakarta-Bandung route should serve as a learning curve if the project is to be continued to Surabaya.

Is the KCIC project feasible to continue to Surabaya?

A more in-depth study is needed, reflecting on the already operational Jakarta-Bandung corridor. It's worth noting that, among all modes of transportation, electric trains have the lowest emissions—especially if the electricity is sourced from renewable energy. High-speed rail is one of the decarbonization efforts in the transportation sector. If the technology has been mastered, why not continue? The caveat is that the current turmoil must be resolved, and there's much to learn from the Jakarta-Bandung corridor. We'll just have to wait and see what Agus Harimurti Yudhoyono (AHY) will do as Coordinating Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development (Menko IPK) in conducting the study.

Whoosh, still relying on ticket revenue. What sectors can be optimized?

The use of rental space and advertising space needs to be increased. There were plans to build Walini Station, but it hasn't been realized. The impact around Padalarang and Tegalluar Stations is already visible. Hotels that were originally priced at around IDR 300,000 are now priced at around IDR 700,000. This is especially true if the project continues to Surabaya. There are many cities it will pass through, and it could spark new growth. This can be realized if we have the courage to continue. If it stops at Bandung, that's it.

What about the alleged corruption in the construction of the Jakarta-Bandung KCIC?

We support law enforcement agencies in investigating the alleged corruption. Anyone involved must be arrested and prosecuted. Regarding the alleged markup, please check the audit results from the relevant agencies.

So, do you support law enforcement in handling this case?

Yes, that is their authority. We fully support law enforcement agencies in thoroughly investigating the alleged corruption and markup in the Jakarta-Bandung KCIC case. As an institution, MTI fully supports this step.

We see this high-speed train project as an opportunity to elevate Indonesia's railways to greater advancement. The railway sector must remain relevant to current developments. Public demand for improved transportation services is not stagnant, but continues to grow along with rising incomes. This is what needs to be anticipated. Each mode of transportation has its own market.

From Tory Damantoro, From Industry to Campus

It's never too late to do good. This is the experience of Tory Damantoro, ST, MSc, MPPM, who also serves as the General Chair of the Indonesian Transportation Society (MTI). Despite having worked in the transportation industry for 15 years, he now enjoys learning and sharing knowledge with students on campus.

"I started teaching at the campus a bit late, after a 15-year career at a British transportation consulting firm. After that, I applied to the campus. Thank God, I was accepted as a lecturer," said the lecturer in the Faculty of Engineering, Department of Civil Engineering, Bina Nusantara University (Binus) Jakarta.

Tory's initial intention in serving on campus was to put the knowledge he had acquired into practice. "I've gained a lot of knowledge at the company, and I want to share it with others through the campus," he said.

The climate at the company and on campus is certainly different, and Tory is well aware of this. He had to adapt to the academic world, which requires a lot of scientific writing in addition to teaching. "On campus, we must think systematically and in a structured manner, supported by valid arguments. We can't just talk; we must back it up with data and previous research," he explained.

Similarly, at MTI, the organization he's involved with, they often criticize government policies in the transportation sector. "Our criticism is always constructive and solution-oriented. It's all based on studies, valid data, and supported by relevant theories," he said.

The Joys and Sorrows of Campus

Entering the world of college was an interesting experience for Tory. "The unpleasant experience was having to compete with gadgets. I always tell my students that my lectures aren't religious studies, so don't ask me for the truth. Both the students and I are learning together," he said.

As a lecturer, Tory isn't against artificial intelligence (AI). "In fact, I encourage students to examine the various definitions presented by various artificial intelligences. That way, they can draw common threads from a concept," he explained.

Through this learning process, he strives to instill in his students the understanding that AI doesn't always provide the right answers, so critical thinking is still necessary. Through this method, Tory feels he can stay relevant with the latest technological developments.

Tory also regularly solicits feedback from his students regarding his teaching style. "I often ask students whether my teaching methods are helping them or not," said Tory, who is currently developing a new course: Transportation Systems and Public Transportation.

Between Jakarta and Jogja

Since August 2025, Tory has been living in two cities simultaneously: Jakarta and Yogyakarta. "Monday through Wednesday I'm in Jakarta, Thursday through Sunday I'm in Yogyakarta. When I'm in Yogyakarta, I use my time to pay more attention to my children and wife," said Tory, who maintains communication with his family while on duty in Jakarta.

When he returns to Yogyakarta, Tory prefers to take the train. "For 20 years I've worked in the sustainable transportation sector. It feels strange to use a mode of transportation with high emissions like an airplane for my routine travel. Besides, trains are now very good," he explained.

Besides emissions, he said flights to Yogyakarta are often delayed. "So, for me, planes to Yogyakarta are less reliable because they're often late," he admitted.

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Tory Damantoro added that the transportation sector will need many experts in the future, both in land, sea, and air transportation. "So, for my fellow students, this is a great opportunity that must be seized. The transportation sector will need many competent human resources in the future," he concluded.

"When the high-speed rail program was about to begin, MTI argued that the high-speed rail project was a lighthouse-type development project. Typically, lighthouse projects are not financially viable."