The government, through the Coordinating Minister for Human Development and Culture, Muhadjir Effendy, announced a change in the designation of the national holiday for the death of "Isa the Messiah" to the death of "Jesus Christ". This is in line with the mention of Christmas as the birth of "Jesus Christ". This change was responded positively by the General Chairman of PGI (Fellowship of Churches in Indonesia), Rev. Gomar Gultom, MTh. According to him, this uniformity is good so as not to confuse things.

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The problem is that for the same figure, when different terms or names are mentioned, the impression is that there are two figures. "We appreciate and are grateful for the changes made by the Coordinating Minister for Human Development and Culture Muhajir Effendy and the Ministry of Religion regarding the name of the national holiday from Isa the Messiah to Jesus Christ. But this is actually not something fundamental. So far in our national calendar it is stated that Good Friday is the death of "Isa the Messiah. Then on December 25 it was said to be the birth of Jesus Christ. Even though it is the same person, one is called Isa the Messiah and the other is called Jesus Christ," said Gomar Gultom.

In fact, said Gomar, there is no problem with using the name Isa Messiah or Jesus Christ. Because both of them are the same figure. "So we from PGI ask that the terms be equated, so as not to confuse Christians. The important thing is that there is uniformity between Christmas and Good Friday. Whether you call it Isa the Messiah or Jesus Christ, there is no problem," he stressed.

Apart from the issue of these changes, there is the issue of monitoring lectures in places of worship which was raised by the Head of the National Counterterrorism Agency (BNPT) Rycko Amelza Dahniel. This idea was taken seriously by various religious figures, including Pastor Gomar Gultom. "Perhaps there are suspicions that one or two places of worship are places where radicalism adheres to, but by proposing this idea, it means generalizing all places of worship like that. If that is the case, this is painful for us," he said.

What worries Gomar Gultom most is the idea that this surveillance will involve the community. Rycko Amelza Dahniel calls it collaborative supervision. "If that is what is done, it is even more serious. The problem is that government officials are usually structured and measured, but if the community is involved, it can be chaotic and create horizontal conflict," he stressed to Edy Suherli, Savic Rabos, and Irfan Medianto from VOI who visited him at the PGI Office, Salemba, Central Jakarta, recently.

Head of BNPT Rycko Amelza Dahniel proposed that lectures in places of worship be controlled by the government, what was your reaction when you first learned about this?

When we hear an idea like this put forward by the Head of the BNPT, it feels like we are returning to the New Order era which controlled every lecture given by religious leaders. I can understand Mr. Rycko Amelza Dahniel's anxiety, he has been arrested here and there, radicalism is still emerging, and the seeds have not disappeared either. Lastly, this happened to a BUMN employee. It seems that on this basis he proposed that lectures in places of worship be controlled. But if this is done, it means assuming that places of worship have become a seedbed for radicalism. Maybe there are allegations like that in one or two places of worship, but by proposing the idea of controlling sermons in these places of worship, it means generalizing all houses of worship like that. If that's the case, this is painful for us.

Why so?

Because we, religious leaders, have worked hard to counteract radicalism in places of worship, but it is still considered that places of worship are hotbeds of radicalism. We as Christians also do not deny that there are fundamentalist groups, but in Indonesia, the most victims are Muslims. So the impression is that houses of worship are the culprits. However, not all are like that.

That there are lectures in places of worship that are critical of government policies that are not correct, I think is normal. I also often lecture or express opinions criticizing the government. Criticizing the government must be seen as part of our efforts to build the nation so that better conditions can be achieved.

Rycko Amelza Dahniel emphasized that the control carried out will involve the community in supervision, not full and unilateral control by the government (collaborative control). If this model is like this, what is your view?

If that's what you do, it's even worse. The problem is, government officials are usually structured and measured, but if the public is involved, it can be chaotic and create horizontal conflict. Even now, certain mass organizations, taking refuge in the Minister of Religion's regulations, are arbitrarily closing places of worship. I predict that if it is implemented in just one religion, there will be conflicts between people of the same religion, when they learn about lectures in one house of worship. Especially if it is endorsed by the state through BNPT.

So if collaborative supervision between the government (BNPT) and the community participates in monitoring, the risks will be greater?

Yes, that's what I'm worried about. There will definitely be horizontal conflict. It is impossible for a speaker or preacher in a house of worship to not have followers. If a community group takes action against the preacher, his followers will not remain silent. That is what will cause horizontal friction or conflict between the preacher's followers and the controlling community.

So this idea you think needs to be rethought?

It would be better if the discourse on controlling preachers or preachers in places of worship, whether carried out by the government itself, let alone by involving the community, should be stopped. Just withdraw this discourse from circulation, because the impact will be terrible. We already have a Criminal Code, regarding hate speech, provocation can be monitored via this device, it doesn't need to be carried out by a special institution, let alone involve the community.

Since 1998, after reform, we have been struggling to uphold democracy. This democratization effort should not be undermined by the idea of controlling preachers like this. According to my understanding, in a democratic country, the people are completely trusted by the state. The people also have the wisdom to solve problems, not all of which have to be handled by the state. We have a lot of local wisdom that can be implemented to solve problems.

In every religion and sect, there are fundamentalist groups, in Christianity, how do you deal with them?

Indeed, fundamental groups exist in every religion. In Myanmar, there are Buddhist fundamentalist groups, in India there are Hindu fundamentalists. In Christianity there is also, as happened in Norway in 2011, a young man shot. Although it was based on the anti-immigrant movement coming to Europe, it was fueled by religious fundamentalism. The murders at New Zealand mosques some time ago cannot be ignored either, all because of religious fundamentalism, in this case, Christianity.

In Christianity, there is a fundamentalist right wing to a very liberal left wing. However, they did not emerge in the form of a radical movement. Why don't they show up? Because everyone, from the far right to the far left, is given space to be heard. Being heard does not mean agreeing. I don't agree with church A's teachings, but I don't have to destroy their teachings. Let them develop, then let's debate in a scientific context. So you don't always have to agree, agree to disagree. This tradition exists in Christianity.

Are there any real examples that you can share?

Our experience at PGI gives space and respects their opinions, both those with right-wing and left-wing views. Again, that doesn't mean we agree with them. There is a sect in Indonesia called Jehovah's Witnesses, we do not agree with their teachings in Christianity. Even so, we will fight if their basic rights as citizens are not accommodated in Indonesia. This attitude is shared by almost all churches throughout the world.

So there's no need to be restrained in expressing your opinion?

If anything is prohibited, when will we grow up? People can grow despite being restrained, but life is not that simple. Here it is forbidden, there it is free. Now how can we limit the internet? The most important thing is to educate the public. I don't smoke and don't encourage people to smoke, but I would never ban the sale of cigarettes.

You once made a statement that it was more important to deal with hate speech than the idea of monitoring lectures in places of worship, how do you explain that?

Hate speech makes our lives difficult. This hate speech will educate our children over time to become intolerant. In fact, the bond between our nation has always been tolerance. And this can be the seed for acts of violence. The stages are hate speech, acts of violence, radicalism and terror against those who are different from us. To overcome this, we all have to entrust it to law enforcers who will adhere to the Criminal Code to resolve all this. So there is no need for another room to complete it.

What needs to be developed are two things, first, tolerance is not only about living together and accepting each other, but also about accommodating each other. For example, if a Muslim visits my house, when prayer time arrives, I must give him a place to perform his worship. If we accept foreigners living in our village, their needs must be accommodated, including the need for worship such as a place of worship.

Since ancient times, Indonesia has had a diversity of ethnicities, races, religions, languages, and cultures from Sabang to Merauke, this is a reality that cannot be ignored, what do you think?

In Indonesia, diversity of ethnicity, race, religion, language, and culture is a necessity. We have long been diverse and cannot be made uniform. Let everything grow, we can be together, but it doesn't have to be the same. Because attempts to standardize ignore real differences.

I think education in schools must start with multiculturalism. That's where we often get stuck. One of the biggest pitfalls is formalism. Clothing at school must be uniform. I respect people who wear the hijab according to their beliefs, but forcing people of other religions to wear it is unreasonable. So the use of school uniforms is only to eliminate striking differences.

How can this distinction be useful, what do you think should be done?

We must be grateful for differences, and let them become added value and enrich us. This is a gift from God to our nation.

The government has decided to pronounce Isa the Messiah as Jesus Christ in national holidays, what is your response to this plan?

We appreciate and are grateful for the changes made by the Coordinating Minister for Human Development and Culture regarding the name of the national holiday from Jesus the Messiah to Jesus Christ. But this is actually not something fundamental. So far, in our national calendar, Good Friday is mentioned as the death of Jesus the Messiah. Then December 25 is said to be the birth of Jesus Christ. Even though these are the same person, one is called Isa the Messiah, and the other is called Jesus Christ. So we from PGI asked that the terms be made equal. So as not to confuse Christians. The important thing is that there is uniformity between Christmas and Good Friday. Whether you want to call it Isa Messiah or Jesus Christ, no problem.

Apart from church matters, what other programs does PGI implement?

Apart from taking care of the affairs of the churches, we also care about realizing the social role of the church. So that the church will be a blessing to this nation. So we also pay attention to politics, injustice, poverty, handling corruption, and environmental sustainability issues. Our earth is getting older and more worrying. Humans exploit nature too much beyond the purpose of nature's creation. For all this, we must repent. If the apocalypse revealed by the scriptures has not yet occurred, the ecological apocalypse is already on the horizon if we do not immediately make ecological changes and repentance.

Apart from that, technological developments are also increasingly rapid. In the past, we only worried about mechanization, human jobs would be taken over by robots. Now genetic engineering combined with digitalization is also happening. Use of artificial intelligence. This issue also concerns us. Humans have been able to create humans who are superior to God's creation. My IQ may currently be 100, but the created human's IQ can reach 200. And he can be healthy until 120 years old. The illness can be predicted five years in advance.

There is also a "Nature Friends" church program, where has this been done?

The COVID-19 that happened yesterday for us is a valve for the ecological crisis. The problem is that in previous research, COVID-19 was a mutation of a previous virus that we did not know. Why the virus mutated, it is said to be due to global warming and climate change. Because it requires repentance.

According to former Vice President Budiono, every person in Indonesia produces 0.7 kg of waste per day. Please multiply by the population, how much waste is produced. There are 20 million Christians alone. If it's a month or a year, how much waste is produced? We all have to care and act so that waste can be managed so that it does not cause harm. Not to mention that rubbish thrown into the sea can pollute the fauna and flora there. Those of us who eat fish and other marine products can also be affected. We have banned the use of plastic in every Oikoumene meeting for food packaging. Participants who come, around 2000, are required to bring food containers and tumblers. So the no plastic campaign.

We also support the campaign to bring a handkerchief, no more tissue, which requires how many trees to make. We ask that all church yards not be cemented, but made of block paving so they can absorb rainwater. The creation of biopores is also encouraged to support the environment. We continue to encourage buildings that do not require air conditioning, such as the work of architect Friedrich Silaban. The Istiqlal Mosque, Atma Jaya Catholic University Building, and Nommensen University Building are his works that can be used as examples. So we are still looking for architects who can build churches in an environmentally friendly manner. That's what we call the Nature Friends church program.

You said earlier about PGI also taking part in tackling corruption, what actual actions have been taken?

Corruption has become chronic in this country. I worry that the church is also strengthening the culture of corruption. I ask the church to accept donations selectively, no more than the donor can afford. We also ask churches not to accept donations whose origins are unclear. It's not easy, but it has to be done. I also stated that I would stop submitting proposals to candidates for regent, candidate for governor, or candidates for legislative members. What we recommend is that if you see a good legislative candidate, no matter what religion he is, collect offerings for him to capitalize on him becoming a legislative candidate, not the other way around.

It's no secret that before the election, religious figures are approached by politicians, are you too?

Yes, we were approached too. In fact, to build the PGI Building in 2013-2014, we were approached by the success team of a certain presidential candidate. However, we politely rejected it. I am grateful that this building was completed with donations from our own congregation.

Rev. Gomar Gultom, MTh., Learned a Lot from the Journey

For the General Chairman of PGI (Fellowship of Churches in Indonesia), Rev. Gomar Gultom, MTh., carrying out assignments to various regions and abroad has many things to do. Apart from carrying out his duties, he also learns from the behavior and customs of the regions or countries he visits. As the saying goes, "with one stroke of the oar, two or three islands are reached."

"My hobby is traveling. If I have an assignment to a region or country, I always combine it with exploring that area. Apart from that, I also like listening to music from the 1970s such as music from CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival), Panbers, Bee Gees, and so on," said the man born in Tarutung, North Tapanuli, January 8, 1959.

In terms of traveling domestically, he really enjoyed trips to North Sulawesi and Nias Island. "I was very impressed when I was on duty in North Sulawesi, but when I visited the countryside, not the urban areas. The people there were very friendly. From children to adults, no one didn't say hello even though they didn't know each other when they met," he said.

He also found the same hospitality while serving on Nias Island. "Nias Island also has the same hospitality as in North Sulawesi. This really impressed me after visiting these two areas," said the pastor who completed his studies at the Jakarta College of Philosophy and Theology.

He was so impressed with these two areas that he described them as smiling Indonesia. "If you want to see smiling Indonesia, it's in Nias and Manado," he said.

Regarding natural scenery, according to him, there is still nothing that can match the natural beauty of his hometown. "Maybe I'm subjective, but in my opinion, the natural scenery in North Sumatra is hard to beat. Not only Lake Toba, but there are many other beautiful mountains, hills, canyons, and other natural panoramas. And they haven't been explored much. What is shown is only Lake Toba," he said, while hoping that the government would also pay attention to other tourist areas so that they could be well publicized.

Adapting to Food

Apart from the friendliness of the people, Gomar Gultom was also impressed by the culinary diversity of the regions or countries he visited. "There, I was always invited to eat delicious food, including food that is prohibited for Muslims," he joked.

However, he honestly admitted that for the extreme culinary delights in North Sulawesi, he did not dare to taste it. "For many people who visit North Sulawesi, extreme culinary delights such as paniki, bats, tom and jerry (dogs and cats), snakes, etc., I don't dare to eat," he said.

Another famous food from Manado that he has been able to enjoy for a long time. After adapting for about four years, he was finally able to enjoy Manado porridge. "The thing is, when I see Manado porridge, I remember the food for pigs in my village. All the dregs of food, leaves, and rice are then boiled and cooked together. So the result is exactly like Manado porridge. That's why I can't swallow it," he admitted.

But because of his social interactions and every time he went to Manado he was always served Manado Porridge, he was finally able to enjoy it. "Because I was often served it, I finally slowly tried it. But it took about four years before I could finally enjoy it. From a nutritional perspective, there's no doubt about it. It has a lot of nutrition and substance content, there are vegetables, sweet potatoes, fish, and rice as the main ingredients. Not only delicious but also healthy," he said.

Experience in Indonesia

In his travels abroad, the most memorable was in Scotland. "There, I was very impressed with the nature, clothing, music, and culture. They have a unique marriage tradition. And this is maintained in various scheduled festivals and attracts the attention of tourists. I think we also have traditions that are no less unique and "it's diverse, it's just that it hasn't been packaged well. It's our joint task to add value," he said.

Apart from that, what is no less impressive is Northern Ireland. In this country, Catholics and Protestants constantly fight. "There were several priest figures there who reconciled them. And that figure said he got inspiration after doing ministry in Indonesia. He saw how Muslims and Christians in various places could unite. And he applied it to the people of Northern Ireland," he said.

Gomar admitted that he was shocked and shuddered to hear the story of the priest who was able to reconcile the dispute in Northern Ireland. "So, when the priest served in Indonesia, he served in Central Sulawesi and Java. What he witnessed in Indonesia became a model and inspiration for the Irish people to live in harmony and peace even though they are different," he continued.

Not only hearing stories, Gomar actually met residents who previously experienced endless conflict. "I was invited to meet a Catholic family and then a Protestant family. Now they can live in peace. Hostilities have become a thing of the past for them," he said.

During his various visits to various European Union countries with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said Gomar, they actually wanted to adopt Pancasila for their country. "Previously they were homogeneous with the same religion, now they have become very heterogeneous with the influx of immigrants from Turkey, Morocco, India, and Pakistan. Their religions are also diverse. Even in some cities such as London, the mayor is Muslim, as are several other cities in Europe. he said.

This is what they need, a glue that can unite their citizens who have now become heterogeneous. "They consider Pancasila as glue," said Gomar Gultom.

"That there are lectures in places of worship that are critical of government policies that are not correct, I think that's normal. I also often lecture or express opinions criticizing the government. Criticizing the government must be seen as part of our efforts to build the nation so that better conditions can be achieved,"